How to Find Your Voice at Work and Stop Playing Small, with Minda Harts (Part 2)

🎧 Episode 207: How to Find Your Voice at Work and Stop Playing Small, with Minda Harts (Part 2)

What is staying quiet at work actually costing you?

Not just the missed moment…

But the opportunity, the growth, the confidence, and the standard you’re setting for what you’re willing to tolerate.

In Part 1 of this conversation, I sit down with Minda Harts to unpack the hidden cost of silence… and why so many high-performing leaders find themselves navigating environments where speaking up feels risky.

From early career experiences of inequity and internal conflict… to the realization that silence carries a cost just as real as speaking up… this conversation will challenge how you think about your voice, your agency, and your responsibility in the rooms you’re in.

Because staying quiet doesn’t keep things neutral… it shapes everything.

We explore:

• The real cost of staying silent at work and how it impacts your career growth, confidence, and leadership presence
• How to speak up with confidence in high-stakes workplace conversations without damaging relationships or credibility
• Why trust issues at work are often communication breakdowns and how unmet expectations quietly erode performance and culture
• The power of self-advocacy and personal agency in leadership, especially for women navigating visibility, influence, and growth
• How using your voice creates permission for others, shaping team culture, trust, and psychological safety

🔑 Key takeaways:

• Staying quiet doesn’t protect you… it positions you exactly where you are
• The conversations you avoid are often the ones that unlock your next level
• Trust is built or broken in the smallest moments… not the biggest ones
• You don’t need permission to advocate for yourself… but you do need courage
• Every time you stay silent, you reinforce the standard you’re willing to accept

Quotes to remember:

• “If I don’t say anything, that’s a cost. If I do say something, that’s a cost too.”
• “My voice is tied to someone else’s freedom.”
• “We have more power than we think we do.”
• “Silence doesn’t keep things neutral… it shapes everything.”
• “The standard you accept becomes the culture you experience.”

🔗 Connect with Minda:

• Website: www.mindaharts.com
• Instagram: www.instagram.com/mindaharts
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mindaharts/

A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!

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Transcript

Conflict Happens Trust Still Matters

SPEAKER_00 0:00

There is going to be conflict in the workplace. There is going to be tension. That's just the nature of life and changes that happens within leadership. But with that change and with that conflict, can I still keep trust at the center? I may not have all the answers. I may not be able to tell you all the things, but I still want you to not be.

Why Leaders Avoid Hard Talks

Clarity And Trust Language

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold leaders and big dreamers who refuse to settle. I'm your host Sonny, CEO, entrepreneur, and someone who's spent over 20 years building, leading, and learning what it really takes to rise. Every step of that journey has taught me something worth passing on lessons in business, leadership, resilience, and the psychology behind it all. Here you'll hear raw conversations, unfiltered truths, and the kind of wisdom that ignites something deeper in you, your courage, your conviction, and your calling. This show will help you think bigger, lead better, and show up bolder in every part of your life and business. This is your place to grow. Let's rise together. If you caught part one of my conversation with Minda Hart, you already know she's the real deal. We've covered how to stop playing small and start owning your seat at the table. But in part two, we go even deeper. We're talking about the conversations leaders are avoiding that are quietly costing them trust, performance, and their best people. We're getting into how to set healthy boundaries that are actually respected, not just tolerated. How to navigate conflict, the healthy kind, and the kind that erodes everything, and what it really means to lead with emotional intelligence when the pressure is on. Plus, Mind to share something I've never heard framed quite this way. A single question you can ask yourself before every email, every meeting, and every hard conversation that will completely change how people experience you as a leader. This one is packed. Let's hop into it. Women are often coached more on how they say something versus what they're actually saying. What guidance would you have for listeners to stop self-editing to the point where our message starts to get diluted?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Yeah, I think that, you know, the title in my book is called Talk to Me Nice, but trust isn't about talking to each other nice. It's about being clear. Brene Brown says clarity is kindness, right? When you understand what it is I need and how it's going to help me and it's going to help you, I think with at least in my experience, I think sometimes we have something we want to say. And like you said, we self-edit. But I think we have to also speak someone else's trust language so that they understand what it is we need, right? Because I think part of it is remembering that trust is a two-way street, right? So if I know that my manager values me keeping the camera on, maybe that's what I need to do because that signals trust, right? They want to be able to see me role modeling that behavior of having the camera on. Maybe, but at the same time, let's say, for example, I have a caretaking situation and today I cannot have that camera on, right? And so instead of allowing someone to jump to conclusions that I'm working in Tahiti, right, on the beach because my camera's off, I can use a language of maybe transparency to say, hey, I just wanted to let you know that, you know, I'm caretaking right now, and my grandfather has Alzheimer's, and sometimes I might have to have the camera off. I just wanted to let you know that to make make it aware, right? You don't have to apologize, you don't have to give your life story. It's just saying, here are the facts, here's what I needed, and here I wanted to let you know what's going on. And then they can run off with it because sometimes I think I know for me, I used to be very much this person is I told you what I needed to tell you, but now I'm backpedaling. Now I'm like, does that work for you? You know, all that kind of stuff. And I think we just have to get just get clear on what we want to say and then leave leave space for a dialogue.

Boundaries In Overwork Cultures

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah, I love that. It makes me think about boundaries, right? And those boundaries that are clearly established. What does it look like to set boundaries that are clear, that are professional and respected, especially in environments that may quietly reward overextension of folks? It's those, you know, it's the expectation, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, you know, essentially what we're talking about, yes, we're talking about trust and communication, but really we're talking about boundaries, letting people know what good looks like to us, right? And I think for so long we've been working in environments where we're only concerned about what it looks like for other people, but we're doing the work. We're gonna be, our cup's gonna be more full if we set realistic expectations for people, right? And especially those who may be in transition in a job right now and you're starting a new one or you're interviewing. I think these are the perfect opportunities to ask those questions that you wish you would have asked in your last, right? To find out, is this a space for me? Can I establish boundaries, practicing them even in the interview process, right? Even in my first 90 days, because I really think it sets the tone. And if you've been somewhere for 20 plus years, today is a good day to start boundary setting. And people will, if they're used to you saying yes to everything, they're gonna be a little like taken aback, but they'll get used to it, right? Just like we all learn how to evolve and change and use different tools, they'll also realize that again, you've already put the trust in the trust bank account. So they know you're trustworthy, but now they get to operate in your world a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

I love that. And and setting the tone right out of the gates, especially in the interview process, right? It's a it's an odd market right now. I think people are there's been a lot of layoffs that we've seen. And so people are doing a lot of interviews. Um, they may be doing more than they had done previously. And so I love that you're sharing this because I think that people can really take this and apply to the next call that they have, the next interview that they have, and really say, what you know, I think about boundaries of like, what are my non-negotiables? What am I willing or unwilling to accept, do, be, say, and be clear on those things. So thinking about those, writing those down, giving real thought to them so that the next conversation that you have, the next interview that you have, you really are, or heck, the next performance evaluation. It's like these can be put in. It doesn't have to be a start of a new job. It's it's really just kind of drawing this line to say, hey, here are my boundaries. Here I want to be respectful of yours as well. I can't be respectful of yours if I'm not clear on what mine are.

The Trust Questions To Ask

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yeah, absolutely. And I think again, we all want to show up for each other in the right ways, right? But sometimes we're not aware of them because we're moving 90,000 miles per hour a day on our day. So we're not thinking about how that email landed on you. We're not thinking about all these things. And so sometimes we need that pause from someone else to say in a nice way, right? That enhances trust and doesn't erode trust that here's what would be helpful next time. So we can, we have control over that.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

For leaders listening who manage teams, who manage people, what conversations have you seen that they're avoiding that are quietly costing them trust and performance and maybe even retention?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah, that's a great question. I I think, you know, for those managers or leaders that are preparing for those, you know, annual reviews, this is a great time to lean into asking the question, what does trust look like for you? I value you as an employee and I want to make sure that we have the best working relationship possible. What do you need from me to do your best work? I spent 15 years in corporate America. I never had a manager ask me that question. And not to say that I didn't have good managers, but they weren't always thinking in that way, right? And I think that's gonna set the tone for, they may not know what the seven trust languages are, but they're gonna tell you a version of these things, right? This is what trust looks like for me. And I think if we as leaders can know, okay, I mean, Minda told me like 10 things, but if I can do two of those things each and every day, we're gonna build a better relationship. She's gonna be able to do her best work, right? And I'm gonna show up in the ways that I need to as her coach, right? As her sponsor, whatever that is. And I think a lot of leaders forget that they are the coach. This is the team. People are looking to you to set the tone, to set the plays. And if it's shaky or it's not trustworthy, or we are playing favorites, then it's you're not gonna have team cohesion and it's not gonna be good for the bottom line. So trust isn't just uh, let's all put on our favorite robes and sing our favorite Taylor Swift songs. Trust is good for work and business, right? It's good for retention. All of these things are good. And so I think if we just get back to the human connection of this um and talk to each other with that clarity and honesty, I think we're gonna see our best working days ahead.

Honest Conflict During Change

SPEAKER_01 9:10

I think so much of that. Sometimes the communication piece and outlining and getting clear with one another, sometimes that can create a sort of a conflict. I don't necessarily mean bad conflict, but I think conflict gets a bad reputation. What would you say is the difference between destructive, unhealthy conflict and the kind of what I refer to as like a healthy conflict that actually builds stronger leadership, stronger culture?

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SPEAKER_00 9:39

Yeah, I think that's a great call-out because there is going to be conflict in the workplace. There is going to be tension. That's just the nature of life and changes that happens within leadership. But with that change and with that conflict, can I still keep trust at the center, right? I may not have all the answers. I may not be able to tell you all the things, but I still want you to not be ruminating or crashing out throughout your day trying to figure it out. Let's have some open dialogue. When I have answers, I'll provide them. But if you have questions, you can ask them, right? And I think that leaders have some kind of put themselves in this like kind of ivory tower. Well, don't ask me anything. Even if you see that your colleague is laid off yesterday, just keep working, right? Nobody can function that way. Acknowledge, yes, Tina, who's been here for 40 years, she was like, go, I understand you're all feeling something right now. Let's have a conversation about that. Here are some resources if you need someone to speak to about this, you know, but let's not pretend that winter isn't coming, you know, if you're Game of Thrones fan or that things aren't happening that we can. Because listen, even if a layoff is coming or a re-org is taking place, people feel better if you're honest to a in a in a point where it helps them make it to five a little bit clearer, right? We're humanizing that these things are, you know, do bother us. And we are wondering if we're next, right? Acknowledging some of those things, even when they're hard conversations, people will run over hot coals for you when you're honest. I know my best managers, right? Even with hard conversations, if I could still trust them at the end of that conversation, it made me want to keep showing up. And I think that that's what managers don't realize is that you're gonna get the best out of your employees when you have a relationship, a good working relationship with them. And that starts with communication.

Emotional Intelligence Under Pressure

SPEAKER_01 11:27

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SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yeah, I think it's critical, right? You know, because for example, I keep going back to feedback because I think that's something that a lot of people have like top of mind sometimes in the workplace, right? Because feedback can feel like criticism or micromanagement or a gift that you don't want. And I think that part of that is even when I give you tough feedback or there's conflict that arises, can we still have a conversation where you don't leave wanting to cuss me out? You know what I mean? Like we can still have a tough conversation and have our humanity in check, right? I don't have to talk down to you, right? I don't have to make you feel bad for coming to me about this. Or if I don't agree with something you've given to me, then I can say, you know what, let me process what you said. Right now, I don't have the answer to that at the moment. Let me think about what that is. Can we schedule a follow-up call tomorrow once I process? Or we're having this conversation and there's some information that you're not aware of. I'd like to provide you with that. Can I forward you some emails and then we can have a better conversation because whoever brought you this information, they weren't there for our January 25th call. And so this might bring a little more context, right? Instead of those emotions. And you say, okay, great, I would love more information on that, right? We could still have a conversation that's not rooted in, like you said, that unhealthy tension, right? And I think that that's the part of it because people, we don't all have the same tools in our toolkit. And when anybody like challenges us, then we get defensive. And so I would encourage us to listen, listen to what people are saying, because at the end of the day, there's some information that you need, and you're not going to get that being tense or defensive.

Trust Gaps Shape Career Paths

SPEAKER_01 14:09

I couldn't agree more. We've talked a lot about communication, talked a lot about trust. How does communication andor trust or the lack of it directly impact career trajectory, especially for women, especially for underrepresented leaders?

Repairing Trust In Small Moments

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that first of all, we have to realize that trust doesn't look the same for everybody. We could have trust at 9 a.m. in the morning and somebody says or does something and trust has gone by 9.07, right? But oftentimes there's no space to be able to talk about those, right? We sweep them under the rug. And so sometimes people think that trust is the grand acts of betrayal, but sometimes it's the swap, small, quiet moments that go and said, right? Uh last year, maybe your company said that we want to make sure that women are in more leadership positions. And then later women see that there's no women's history month. What does that signal to the people who were hoping that what you said was true six months before, right? What's that gonna do for me as a woman or a person of color if we don't have these cultural celebration days anymore? Right. If you said that this is a place that is for everybody, right? So we have to understand how these things land on other people. Um, and I think again, there's been sometimes no space to be able to talk about those things. And I think this is so important to acknowledge that we might all work at the same place, but we don't experience the workplace the same. And so what would it look like to see someone and acknowledge that that is true? And we want to make sure that we're doing and behavioring and demonstrating behavior where even if we do have to change names of programming or we're doing something that people still feel like they're valued here. And I think that's part of it, right? We don't need an initiative for everybody to feel like this is a place that they can succeed, but you have to demonstrate that behavior.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

I'm curious, as we've talked about all of this and in the process of writing Talk to Me Nice, how has that changed the way you show up in conversations, in coaching, going through that process yourself and really probably taking a lot of lived experience and putting it down on paper for others to experience?

SPEAKER_00 16:19

I I love this question because Talk to Me Nice, I'm constantly, every time I talk about it, I'm putting a mirror up to my own face, right? Because I'm talking about the trust and trustworthy behavior. And so I also have to reflect on myself. I remember recently a friend of mine was telling me that they were having a really tough time at work. And when you're a workplace consultant, you become like everybody, every friend has you're the coach for that, right? Like, and they were telling me, oh, Minda, I'm having this issue. How would you feel if that happened to you? And I said, I wouldn't care about that because I would just move on with my day, right? And I had to stop in my tracks and practice the language of sensitivity because that wouldn't bother me, but it's clearly bothering this person. And I think sometimes we say things like that, right? And in that moment, that could have eroded trust with that person to say, I can't have these conversations with Minda anymore because she doesn't get it. I stopped and I apologized. I said, you know what? That wouldn't bother me, but we are two different people. So tell me more about this. Let's talk about what's a conversation that you could have to make this better for you at work. And I think these are the things that it's those small little moments, right? That we have to check ourselves to say, okay, this may not be important to me. I may not need follow through. I'm fine. I may not need transparency, but somebody needs it from you, right? And remembering that trust is a two-way street.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

It's interesting. Sometimes we catch ourselves, it might have just fallen out of our mouth, and we're like, oh, hold on a second. Uh my son and I have been working on something recently where he's like, Really, mom? Like you tell me not to make comments after you know something. And so we've been doing that a lot lately. It'll pop out and we're like, oh, okay, you know what? That I said I wasn't gonna make a comment. And I did, and so I'm sorry. And but it's funny, it's my 14-year-old and I we're we're working on this together. But it is sensitivity.

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yeah, yeah. We're all a work in progress. That's what I tell people. It's not about being perfect, but it's about are we getting better, right? Is there room for growth? And I think if we all start from that place, then we can talk to each other a little bit better.

The One Trust Building Question

SPEAKER_01 18:20

That's right. Well, if listeners could take just one courageous communication shift from this conversation into their next meeting, into their next conversation or boundary setting moment, what what would you want it to be?

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah. I just want each and every one of us to think before I say this, before I do this, before I send this email, is this going to enhance trust with the person on the other end? Or he wrote it. And I think if we ask that simple question for the things that we do and say, we'll all show up a lot better and trust will always be at the center, right? And even when we do it wrong, we get to follow back up because that's the courageous part, right? To acknowledge that I did do it wrong, but I'm committed to showing you that I can be better. And if we all remember that and humanize each other, I I think that we're more alike than not, because I think we all want that humanity and that grace.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Yeah, I I really appreciate that. It's something that I'm gonna take. Uh I like to put stickies that are in my purview. But that way, as we're, you know, engaging in meetings, that's in front of us. And so that's gonna be that's gonna be another sticky on my computer. Cause I do think that's really important. And I feel like it's a it's a sense of responsibility, but sometimes when it's not, when we're Russians for the day and a lot going on, we may not think through that. And so I would encourage people to put that sticky on your computer, put it somewhere where it's in front of you because that really will serve both you and those that you engage with.

Turning Lessons Into Short Films

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

On top of all that we've talked about of being an author and a speaker and a coach and doing so many things, you have a clearly a very creative side, as we talked about with the gift or curse type of creativity, but you have three short films that are currently being shown in festivals. I would love for you to share a little bit more about that for folks who want to explore those.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah, thank you so much. I I was telling you I am like the mad scientist. And so as an author, I am a storyteller, as a public speaker, a storyteller. And a lot of people won't read books, but they like to watch TV and film. And so I decided to take some of the stories and the lessons and create them in short form short film format so that people get to experience what those things are that we're talking about in a different medium. And so I'm excited. Just stay tuned. Go to minahhearts.com, see where a festival is in your area. And hopefully one day you'll see me on your screen when you're watching uh one of the streaming platforms.

Trust As A Daily Choice

SPEAKER_01 20:40

That's amazing. So congratulations just on all of your success. And but more so, congratulations on really taking all of your lived experiences and using them, putting them in different mediums where it helps other people navigate the things that they're going through when maybe they may feel very alone or like no one else, no one else understands, or no one else has traveled down this path. And in hearing this, in reading your book and hearing you speak, people know that they're not alone. And so I love that you're sharing your wisdom with the world. Well, thank you for doing the same. Absolutely. Well, as we wrap up, there's one question that I love to ask at the end of the podcast. And that is if it were your last day on earth, and of all of the experiences you've had and the wisdom that you've acquired, you could only impart one piece of advice or guidance on the world. What would that be?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

That's a heavy question, but an important question. I would just say trust is a choice, and trust isn't a one time event, but a lifestyle. Love it. Mic drop.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Uh we're gonna have everything in the show notes, but I would love for you to share where can people find you, follow you, pick up a copy of the book.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Yeah, so go to mindahearts.com and from there you can do all the things, follow me on your favorite so social media platforms and also. So I partnered with uh Google Labs and I am one of their trust AI coaches. So if you have a situation that you're you need some help with, go to the Google Labs website and click on my icon and we can talk through some of your trust issues and I can we can help problem solve. So you're enhancing and not eroding.

Share Rate Review And Rise

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Oh, that's awesome. It has been an absolute delight to speak with you. I feel like we could probably go on and on and on, but I really appreciate you making time to come on, sharing your wisdom, sharing all that you've gone through with my audience. I know that there are probably a lot of people taking copious notes throughout this. So thank you. I appreciate you and I appreciate your time. I appreciate you too. Thank you so much. If today's episode challenged you, moved you, or lit a fire in your soul, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with someone who's ready to rise in their leadership, their business, and their life. And if you haven't already, I'd be so grateful if you took 30 seconds to rate and review the podcast. It's one of the most powerful ways to support the show and help us reach more bold leaders like you. Because this isn't just a podcast, it's a movement. We're not here to play small. We're here to lead loud and elevate how we think, lead, and execute. One bold and unapologetic step at a time. Until next time, stay bold, stay grounded, and make moves that make mediocre uncomfortable.