Evoke Greatness Podcast

Gen Z Leadership in the Modern Workplace with Giselle Sandy Phillips (Pt. 1)

• Sonnie Linebarger • Episode 198

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🎧 Episode 198: Gen Z Leadership in the Modern Workplace with Giselle Sandy Phillips (Pt. 1)

In Part 1 of this timely conversation, Giselle Sandy Phillips and I step into a conversation every leader needs to hear… but few are willing to have.

This episode sits at the intersection of leadership, culture, and the next generation already reshaping the modern workplace.

Giselle, author of Thriving in the Modern Age, challenges the narrative around Gen Z and reframes what’s really driving disengagement, burnout, and turnover.

This is not a conversation about entitlement or work ethic.

It’s about the growing human gap between expectations and experience…and how outdated leadership models are failing to keep up with a rapidly changing workforce.

Together, we explore what Gen Z is actually asking for, what leaders are missing, and how organizations can build environments where people don’t just work… they thrive.

Giselle offers insights on:

• Why Gen Z is widely misunderstood in the workplace

 â€˘ The leadership and communication gap driving disengagement and turnover

 â€˘ How miscommunication between generations creates friction and burnout

 â€˘ Why mid-level leaders sit at the most critical bridge of change

 â€˘ The myth that Gen Z doesn’t want to work…and what they truly value instead

 â€˘ How social media and short-form communication shape expectations

 â€˘ Why clarity, feedback, and belonging matter more than perks or titles

 â€˘ How Gen Z is exposing outdated leadership playbooks still in use

🔑 Key takeaways:

Gen Z isn’t difficult to lead… they’re different to lead

Miscommunication, not motivation, is the real retention problem

Clarity and feedback are foundational, not optional

Leadership must evolve across all generations, not just one

Modern workplaces require modern leadership

đź’ˇ Quotes to remember:

“Gen Z isn’t asking for less accountability… they’re asking for better leadership.”

“They’re not disengaged because they don’t care… they’re disengaged because they don’t feel connected.”

“Mid-level leaders are standing at the bridge… and that’s where most of the friction lives.”

“If leaders don’t learn to speak their language… they’ll simply leave.”

If you lead people…

If you’re navigating generational tension at work…

If you’re trying to retain talent without losing your culture…

This episode will challenge assumptions and invite you to lead differently.

A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!

Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com

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SPEAKER_00:

The gap itself shows up in the form of miscommunication. You know, everything kind of stems from that. Uh, Gen Z just kind of comm they communicate differently. And so, you know, you look at, you know, they communicate using emojis, DMs, Slack messages. And that's so vastly different than how the older generations communicate. And so they come into the workplace and they expect instant feedback. And the older generation is like, no, you're entitled. Why do you have all these expectations?

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Evoke Greatness, the podcast for bold leaders and big dreamers who refuse to settle. I'm your host, Sonny. I started in Scrubs over 20 years ago, doing the gritty, unseen work and climbed my way to CEO. Every rung of that ladder taught me something worth passing on. Lessons in leadership, resilience, and what it really takes to rise. You'll hear raw conversations, unfiltered truths, and the kind of wisdom that ignites something deeper in you. Your courage, your conviction, your calling. This show will help you think bigger, lead better, and show up bolder in every part of your life. This is your place to grow. Let's rise together. Today's conversation is for leaders who feel the tension in the workplace, but haven't quite named it yet. In part one of this episode, we unpack what's really driving Gen Z disengagement, turnover, and burnout, and why this isn't a generational problem. It's a leadership gap. You'll hear why miscommunication is costing organizations their talent, what Gen Z is actually asking for at work, and how outdated leadership models are creating friction across every generation. This episode sets the foundation for understanding the modern workplace and what leaders must shift if they want to engage, develop, and retain this next generation. Let's get into part one. Welcome back to another episode of Evoke Greatness. Today's conversation is one I've been looking forward to because it sits at the crossroads of leadership, culture, and the next generation that's already reshaping the modern workplace. Today I welcome Giselle Sandy Phillips, author of the new book Thriving in the Modern Workplace: A Gen Z Guide to Success. Giselle has become a bold voice for bridging the growing gap between emerging talent and the leaders responsible for shaping them. Her work digs into something few are willing to name out loud: a leadership crisis that is driving Gen Z turnout, burnout, and disconnection. Not because they're difficult to lead, but because the human gap between expectations and experience has never been wider. Giselle brings clarity, insight, and action to a conversation every organization needs to be having. She helps us understand what Gen Z is really asking for, what leaders keep missing, and how companies can build environments where people can thrive, contribute, and stay. This is about creating modern workplaces that work for everyone. So I can't wait to dive in. Giselle, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Talking about your award-winning book, it's uh sounds like it's doing tremendous work out there as you continue to do. You've emerged as an advocate for Gen Z and a voice for the modern workplace transformation. What I'm curious is, if we look backwards a little bit, how did your own journey lead you to this work?

SPEAKER_00:

So I have traversed my experience is very wide and diverse. And I'm a veteran. I worked in project management for many years. I have worked in organizations where I was involved in, you know, helping them with organizational development. And through it all, I've had the experience of coming across young professionals. And, you know, I see them coming into the workplace and um, you know, young, eager, ready to learn, but in some ways very unprepared. Additionally, I have two young Gensies myself. And so I get to witness it firsthand at home and through their friends. Uh, you know, just how unprepared they are coming out of high school and how much they yearn to learn some of the life skills that we as adults we learn as we go. And so it really, really made me stop and think. And, you know, you hear all the different stereotypes and, you know, they're entitled and they're difficult and everything else. And I'm like, someone gotta speak up for them because they're just so misunderstood. And, you know, they've been through so much, and yet they were born into a time where, you know, there's mental health, there was a pandemic. And so I just really found it fulfilling to write a book that spoke directly to them, to give them some guidance as to how they can show up in the workplace.

SPEAKER_01:

I was having a conversation recently where we were talking about kids coming out of school nowadays, not necessarily from an educational perspective, being fully equipped. And I think back to, I'm probably dating myself, but I think back to junior high and high school where we had home ec and we learned to cook and we learned how to fill out a check and we learned lightly about finances, but it equipped me to be able to navigate kind of that early start in life. It's so interesting that those things have kind of been pulled out of school. And then we have this expectation that these kids are to come into the workplace or the workforce being fully equipped yet lacking some of that education.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. I mean, even my own daughter, you know, she's like, you know, they ask me, like, how do you write a check? And she's like, why didn't they teach us that in school? And so just questions like that, you know, really got me thinking, like, yeah, why didn't they teach you all that in school? Like, these are things that that you need coming out into the workplace, you need to know these things. You know, how do you go to the post office and you mail a package? Just life skills are things that they simple things. They just don't know. And so, you know, the book, even though it's written to speak directly to Gen Z, it's also speaking to educators and employers that is involved in, I guess, molding them and working with them, you know, into these next generation leaders, right? So it's it's meant to help them understand Gen Z and how they think and how they show up in the workplace.

SPEAKER_01:

You talk about a leadership crisis that no one is discussing. What exactly is that human gap behind Gen Z turnover? And why do you believe leaders are missing it? Like it's not even on their radar.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think most leaders today, the gap itself, I think, shows up in the form of miscommunication. You know, everything I think kind of stems from that. Gen Z just kind of coming, they communicate differently. And so, you know, you look at, you know, they communicate using emojis, DMs, Slack messages. And that's so vastly different than how the older generations communicate. And so they come into the workplace and, you know, they expect instant feedback. They expect things to be, you know, they they have purpose and they expect things to be clear to them. And the older generation is like, no, you're entitled. Why do you have all these expectations, right? And it's not that they have expectations, it's just that they're they're they're trying to be engaged and they're trying to understand how do you connect the dots? Why do you do things the way that you do them? And so, you know, in the book, I speak to yes, the older generation needs to understand Gen Z and how they're showing up and how they're communicating. But Gen Z needs to also understand that yes, the older generation brings experience and to try to learn from them. So it's a two-way street. And so until they find a way to bridge that gap, and leaders, especially mid-level managers, which I see stand at the bridge, and they're the ones that kind of, you know, because they deal with them on a day-to-day basis. And that's where most of the friction seems to stand. They need to really understand that they need to engage and mentor these young people. And if they don't learn to speak their language, you know, they're just gonna leave and they're gonna go to a place where they're gonna get that fulfillment. And so it's that miscommunication, that misunderstanding, I think that drives a lot of the friction and widens that gap that we see.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, when you look across today's workplaces, what do you see as the biggest myth leaders hold about Gen Z that is actually hurting their performance and retention?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's that uh it's the myth that they don't want to work or that they they feel entitled. Uh, I don't think it's that they don't want to work. I mean, they're very talented, they bring a lot of innovation, they're very creative. Uh, and so, you know, in the book, I I talk to them in that utilize the skills that you have. You don't need permission to lead. You don't need a title to lead. All right. You need to just success is something personal and you have to define it on your own terms. And uh, you know, if you're good at content creation, then use that to your advantage. You don't need to show up necessarily the same way as these, you know, the older generation showed up 20 years ago because it's a different time. And so, you know, I I feel like there's this big misunderstanding that, yeah, they they just feel entitled and they want so much, and they, you know, I think the older generation just need more skills. We need the skills to understand that this is a different time. They're showing up differently, they're showing up more intentionally. And so they're technically being the pulse check, I think, for the culture, the new modern workplace, to show where the gaps are, to show where the deficiencies are, and to show, you know, where they're still using that old playbook. You know, I like to think of it as Gen Z uh is operating in 2030, and you know, most of these leaders are still leading as if it's 1998. Fair point.

SPEAKER_01:

Fair point for sure. I'm curious, how much do you think social media influences the way Gen Z shows up in the workplace? That's been so much a part of their world, whereas previous generations that wasn't necessarily as prevalent or as they weren't as intimate with that. But I really think that with Gen Z, that has become a huge portion of their formation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, it has. And I think for them, it's just their way of communicating and networking. So, you know, you you think of a platform like LinkedIn. LinkedIn is where most, I guess, businesses go and you know, you network and they post and you know, they communicate. I feel like Instagram and, you know, Facebook and all the other platforms, these attract the younger generations because of the way, you know, they have DMs, they use videos. It's it's just speaking the language, I think, that Gen Z understands. All right. You have short, it's it's just it's not long, it's not drawn out, you know, they don't, you don't beat around the bush, it's not a whole bunch of theory. You just kind of get to the point, you give them it in small chunks, they digest it, and that's what works for them. Uh, and so, you know, I think that's why most of them don't want to do LinkedIn, because LinkedIn just seems to be too formal for them because it's just you go on there and you have long newsletters and you have long articles, and it just doesn't appeal to them in the same way as if they go on these other platforms.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's definitely longer format. I'd never thought about that. It really is, though. It is a longer format style platform. I think about my son who's 17, and what I find so interesting is when engaging with friends, they don't even text anymore. To your point, they go on Instagram or Snapchat and they and they go and it's just these short little bursts of communication back and forth. But it's it's funny how text messaging has even kind of fallen off the radar for them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. They don't even want to text anymore, you know, they communicate via Discord. And, you know, for instance, the other day, my even with my daughter, you know, we we had my son's phone and we were wondering, oh, how could we communicate with him? We wanted to get a message to him. And she's like, oh, I can just reach out to him on Snapchat. And I'm like, okay. You know, and I was just amazed that you can still even reach each other in a different platform for something that I'm thinking you need to text for or pick up one and have a phone call. So it's just really interesting to see how creative they are and how they find ways to, I guess, to to communicate and to interact and to network. And that's that's just what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. In your research and experience, what are the top Gen Z, what are the top needs that Gen Z has that companies consistently underestimate or overlook?

SPEAKER_00:

I think is that uh, you know, Gen Z comes in and they want clarity. They want to see how their career is gonna progress. And so I feel like this clarity needs to start even before onboarding, all right? It needs to start even in the interview process. Uh they need to see, okay, I'm gonna come into a company and um this is what the company stands for. You know, they have strong sustainability, you know, they can see how they're gonna grow, they can see where they can lead, they can see a clear path. I think prior generations, you know, you come in, they work, and they wait. They wait to get promoted. Gen Z is not like that. They want to see how I'm, you know, how am I gonna progress. And that's the reason why they like instant feedback because they want to know now, how am I doing? They don't want to wait for a year from now to get a performance review only to find out, okay, you didn't do well. Tell me now, am I performing well? Am I not? And so a lot of leaders aren't used to that concept because they're still thinking they got to do a quarterly review or they gotta do an annual review. And so they missed the mark. And Gen Z that feels like, you know, no one's hearing them. They feel like, you know, and then they become disengaged and they check out mentally. And then, you know, the next thing is to check out physically, and then they yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It is, it's the immediate, it's almost the immediate gratification piece, right? Yeah that as you were saying that, I was thinking through just what we've spoken about, which is social media and little snippets and short attention, and you immediately get it's um, it's as if you make a post. And once you get a like on the post, boom, you get this hit of dopamine because you have a like. Yes. But it's all like these short-term rewards. So it's really interesting that you say that. How do you think that that, the way that Gen Z shows up in the workplace with just kind of bringing in a new air, how do you think that's going to shift workplaces in general? Because you've got everywhere from like the boomers that could still be there that are used to focusing on working for a very long, very invested, oftentimes very loyal, and they'll stay somewhere 20 years. And then you've got the other end of the spectrum of Gen Z that's like, if I don't feel like I'm moving ahead, then I'm gonna go somewhere where I can get that quickly.

SPEAKER_00:

So I think, you know, it puts the pressure on leaders to really be intentional about how they they they interact with them. And like I said, the mid the mid-level managers, I think that they especially have the pressure, right? Because they're the ones that's really overseeing them day to day, doing these performance reviews, mentoring them, at least they should be. And so another thing is Gen Z likes training. So that you know, you have to make sure you're giving them micro training. Uh, they want to be visible. And so if it is these workplaces do not adapt, you know, where they're they're they're allowing them to keep up and to, you know, technology is changing like rapidly. There's AI, and it's not that, okay, they fear AI. It's just that they need to know, okay, what is expected of them and how they utilize AI, which is the same thing for the older generation, right? And I think the older generation, they're even more afraid of JI because they think AI is just going to replace them. And so it's a whole issue of, okay, what do we do going forward? Not just to support OG and Z, but to support our multi-generation that's in the workplace, right? And so that's where the topics of reskilling and upskilling, you know. And uh, so I think that for workplaces going forward, they're really gonna have to be intentional about, okay, what do they have in place, like for learning and development, professional development, and just really, you know, to keep this generation? It's not gonna take like perks and ping pong tables and stuff like that. They need more than that. You know, they need more than a paycheck. They are very intentional about what they want, and they are not afraid to speak up and to say what they want.

SPEAKER_01:

What would be classified when we think about what is meaningful work? What makes up meaningful work for Gen Z? Where do they place like that important?

SPEAKER_00:

I think meaningful work for them would be allowing them to just be themselves, to be creative, to not stifle them with a whole bunch of policies and all the workplace jargon and you, you know, you bring them in and you just burden them with all the old systems that you know the older generations are used to. They need that space to really be creative and to have a voice and to be able to interact and to feel like they have a place, right? They don't want to just feel like, okay, they are they're being spoken down to all the time because they're the younger generation. They want to know that, okay, even though I'm young, I can still have a voice. I can still voice my opinion, I can still share an idea, and it will be taken seriously, it will be considered. And so I really feel like that is what is gonna be needed going forward. And that's why a lot of these companies, you know, they're having these councils that they create with Gen Z where they allow them to get together and uh, you know, they come up with ideas and then they feed these ideas to the CEOs. And so they feel, they feel like they belong because that's what it's about. It's about that belonging. A lot of them just don't feel like they belong because nobody speaks to them, nobody cares about what, you know, what's going on with them. Companies have to be intentional.

SPEAKER_01:

As I think through the tenure that has that is seems to be dwindling down over the last handful of years. So I've been in leadership for, geez, probably the last 15-ish years, been in the healthcare industry for 25 years, but specifically in a place where I've been like interviewing people and hiring people. And what I've noticed over time, probably from COVID on, is a drastic reduction in tenure. But what's interesting is I don't even equate that to just Gen Z. I equate that kind of across the board. Do you think that Gen Z is having uh is impacting other generations in what they're willing to do and not do or tolerate inside of an organization?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it it is to an extent. And I think it kind of varies from industry to industry and maybe company to company. I know a lot of the older heads that have been in companies for so long, the ones who've carried the companies, they're beginning to feel like, okay, their work matters more than them. And so they're kind of in a similar situation where they feel like they don't belong. They feel like nobody's really caring about fulfilling their needs. And uh it's a similar thing for Gen Z. And so, you know, if many of them don't feel that fulfillment, then they're like, okay, I'm just gonna retire. I'm just gonna leave. Like there's nothing else for me to do. But, you know, we need those people to stick around. We need those people to know that, okay, you don't need to leave. You don't need to change who you are. You just need to find a way to communicate your skill set and, you know, your knowledge, because that's very valuable and pass it on to the next generation. And I know for many with COVID, you know, a lot of people had the opportunity to work from home and some found fulfillment in it, some didn't. And uh now a lot of them are going back to the workplace and they may not find as much fulfillment. So that may affect, you know, some people whether or not they stay or they go. But I think at the end of it all, it just has to do with the caucia in the company and what's going on. Okay, this is where we hit the pause button.

SPEAKER_01:

You know the routine. Make sure to come back next week for part two. If today's episode challenged you, moved you, or lit a fire in your soul, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with somebody who's ready to rise. Can I ask you to take 30 seconds to leave a review? It's the best way to say thank you and help this show reach more bold leaders like you. Because this isn't just a podcast, it's a movement. We're not here to play small. We're here to lead loud, one bold and unapologetic step at a time. Until next time, stay bold, stay grounded, and make moves that make mediocre uncomfortable.

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Sonnie Linebarger

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