Evoke Greatness Podcast
Do you have an insatiable hunger for growth and knowledge?
Are you interested in hearing the stories of how successful people have navigated their journey towards greatness…all while stumbling through valuable lessons along the way?
My name is Sonnie and I am the host of Evoke Greatness, the weekly podcast driven by my curious nature and fascination with the champion mindset. I am a HUGE book nerd and a wee bit of a "control enthusiast" with an obsession for motivational coffee cups.
On this podcast, we share the ups and the downs, the highs and lows and all the lessons learned in between. It's my most sincere hope you hear something in one or maybe many of these episodes that resonates with you and reminds you that you’re not in this alone.
I believe that a rising tide raises all ships and I invite you along in this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Evoke Greatness Podcast
Where Real Leadership Begins with Laurie Maddalena (Pt. 2)
🎧 Episode 193: Where Real Leadership Begins with Laurie Maddalena (Pt. 2)
In this powerful continuation of my conversation with leadership expert, executive coach, and author Laurie Maddalena, we move from insight to application. Part Two is where leadership gets practical.
Laurie shares how leaders can break free from reactive cycles, lead through uncertainty with confidence, and create sustainable impact without burning themselves out. This episode dives deep into confident coaching, intentional focus, and the leadership behaviors that quietly determine whether teams merely function or truly flourish.
She offers insights on:
How to create space for constructive conflict without shutting it down
Why lack of focus and lack of delegation quietly sabotage leadership effectiveness
How leaders can move from reactive to intentional in demanding environments
What confident coaching really looks like during uncertainty
Why promoting technical skill over leadership readiness keeps organizations stuck
🔑 Key takeaways:
Constructive conflict strengthens teams when leaders normalize it
Intentional focus is a leadership discipline, not a personality trait
Delegation is essential to elevate both leaders and teams
Coaching requires curiosity more than certainty
Great leadership is sustainable when priorities are placed on purpose
💡 Quotes to remember:
“Leadership becomes unsustainable when everything feels urgent.”
“Moving from fixer to facilitator can change your leadership and your life.”
If you’re leading a team, a company, or a growing vision and feel pulled into constant reaction, this episode offers practical tools to help you lead with clarity, confidence, and intention.
This episode builds directly on Part One and brings the conversation full circle.
Connect with Laurie Maddalena:
Website: https://www.lauriemaddalena.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauriemaddalena/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lauriemaddalena/
A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!
Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com
Follow me on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonnie-linebarger-899b9a52/
https://www.instagram.com/evoke.greatness/
https://www.tiktok.com/@evoke.greatness
http://www.youtube.com/@evokegreatness
So many people are coming in every day and just spending their days putting out fires, dealing with interruptions, emergencies, going to meetings, and they're not focused on the key result areas, the areas that are most important for their role. I believe that there are practices that we can implement to be intentional as leaders and to really use the time we have in a much more meaningful way.
SPEAKER_00:Every rung of that ladder taught me something worth passing on. Lessons in leadership, resilience, and what it really takes to rise. You'll hear raw conversations, unfiltered truths, and the kind of wisdom that ignites something deeper in you. Your courage, your conviction, your calling. This show will help you think bigger, lead better, and show up bolder in every part of your life. This is your place to grow. Let's rise together. Welcome back to part two where real leadership begins with my guest Lori Maddalena. In part one, we talked about the moment leadership needs to evolve. In part two, we explore what happens next. This episode is about confident coaching, navigating uncertainty without burning out, and creating the kind of clarity and psychological safety that allows teams to think, challenge, and perform at a higher level. Okay, let's hop into it.
SPEAKER_01:I was just working with a team last week and someone, it was an executive team, someone brought up that it's uncomfortable to bring up challenging conversations on that team. And we were having kind of an honest conversation. And he said, you know, I feel like a couple of people on this team really don't view that as positive. And so one of the strategies I said to this person, I said, you know, next time there starts to be a little bit of conflict, you know, we're not talking about destructive conflict, but most of it is constructive. When there's constructive conflict, the next time that starts to happen and you feel like someone's going to shut that down, just interject and say something like, this is really great. We need to continue this conversation and not stop because we're really getting to some good ideas here and acknowledge that you're comfortable with it. And the more that maybe more people do that on the team and it's not viewed as silence, as you know, these two people are arguing and you're advocating for it and encouraging it, over time, maybe they can make that shift into really having some of those constructive conversations that are really necessary.
SPEAKER_00:I love I love that suggestion. I mean, that is something that people can take and in their next meeting apply it real life for the practical application side of things. And it's almost like trial and error, right? Try the things. Sometimes they land flat. Sometimes it creates even more of an uncomfortable space in the room. And that's okay because if we if we're continuing to try these things, we're almost seeing, hey, what lands well, what went a little sideways, or what fell flat altogether. And then I think you can continue to shape that and progress forward with it.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. And I know you talk a lot on your podcast about overcoming mediocrity. And I think these are ways that we can do that, is not just accepting that, oh, we're all going to go along, but start to implement some of these things. I think that's a very safe way to do it. Every team is different, but to not just take the status quo, and this is really what I'm on a mission for leadership in our companies, is most of them are status quo mediocre. And there are so many ways we can elevate leadership and ways we can be much more intentional with our staff and revolutionize how we see leadership as a true profession that has an impact on our employees, on our employees' well-being. And um, you know, I think that's a way we need to really break the leadership cycle that's happening in our companies is not to keep that mediocre leadership.
SPEAKER_00:A rising tide, right? And it brings everybody up. That's the beat. That's right. You identify six leadership saboteurs. Curious, what do you think, or which one do you think quietly undermines even those most experienced leaders? And how then can they, how can they get past that?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So the six leadership saboteurs are those behaviors, mindsets, elements that can get in the way. And I want to first say that I believe we all experience at least one, usually more than one, in our career. So this isn't uh, oh, I don't have any of those. I'm great. You know, it's more of an evolution through these things. And they can even pop up later in our career. So if we're taking on more responsibility or our influence grows, we get a promotion, sometimes those saboteurs can get in the way of us being effective. I'd love to share two if you're okay with that. Cause I think there's in my mind right now, there's two that are competing that I think are the most prevalent that I see right now in today's environment. And one is lack of focus. So many, you know, we talked about reactive leadership. So many people are coming in every day and just spending their days, putting out fires, dealing with interruptions, emergencies, going to meetings, and they're not focused on the key result areas, the areas that are most important for their role. I believe that there are practices that we can implement to be intentional as leaders and to really use the time we have in a much more meaningful way so that we're not working constant hours and weekends. And I think this is a huge problem. Leadership is a very demanding role, but I don't believe it's sustainable for people to be working and overwhelmed and burnt out. And so lack of focus is more challenging now because things are constantly changing. The pace of change is accelerating and the priorities are changing a lot. And so people are from here to there and here. And so that can get in the way of great leadership, is when you're not focusing on the most important things, or you can't get your team to focus on the most important areas and priorities. And so this is why creating clarity for ourselves and for our teams is so important. The other one I think gets in the way the most is lack of delegation. And I see this at the most senior level, even of leaders who, like I described before, sometimes when you're promoted from a technical role to a leadership role, you hold on to those technical pieces. And I know this has been one for me that not only was probably the saboteur I've had to work to overcome in my leadership career, you know, evolving, but even to this day is something I have to be very conscious of is delegating. And I remember when I was promoted to director of human resources, I was about three months into that role. And my manager, the VP, had a meeting and she said, Lori, I didn't promote you for you to do the things that you were doing before. You should not be payroll issues. You should not be answering benefit questions. You should be focused on creating leadership programs for our team and these more strategic areas. And up until that time, I had equated my professionalism and my value with my technical HR experience. I thought that was the value I brought. And I didn't make that mental shift to now these this leadership role requires different competencies. And I'm very fortunate she gave me that feedback because I started to become more conscious and work. I had to really work to understand how to delegate appropriately and not dump. And um, this is something that I think many, many leaders are challenged with. They hold on to the technical, whether it's they're afraid to let go, they don't trust their team, they don't have time often. They think they don't have time. And so they they'll do something that takes 10 minutes, but you know, they could take 30 minutes to offload that. And longer term, that makes more sense. And so it's this cycle that gets in the way from being able to focus on the leadership, like coaching your employees and appreciation and feedback. You're not going to find time for those things if you're constantly in the weeds. And so those are the two most common that I find that can keep leaders from really getting to that next level and elevating and being really effective.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the lack of clarity, lack of focus, I think is a big one. Because to your point earlier, there's fires, there's the opportunity for fires all the time. Our attention can get drawn down into the weeds where we can end up pulling other people down with us. And the problem with that is if you are not aware of that piece and you don't kind of grab a hold of the situation and say, okay, we've been working in the business. Now let's kind of rise up and back out of that a little bit to work on the business. There is the opportunity, the unintended consequence to be blindsided by something because your focus was on maybe one of the little things or your lack of focus wasn't on the big thing.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. And again, I think this is so important for in our workplaces today, is to be able to get to that point where you are so much more intentional. And, you know, a big piece of this book, clearly, I'm writing this book for leadership strategies, want to help people become more confident and effective leaders. But another overarching piece of this is that I see so many leaders who are in this unsustainable cycle of reaction. And it's impacting even their personal life, where they feel like I can't enjoy my personal life. I have to log on at night or I'm working weekends. And I find that trying to catch up has the opposite effect of what we think. That this propensity to add more hours doesn't help alleviate the stress. It adds to it because now we're exhausted and we're not showing up as our best. And so that intention piece of how are we being intentional about every part of our day? Are we coming in and blocking time for the most important key result area so that we can make traction on that? Are we blocking meetings to have coaching sessions with our employees? I call this priority planning, where we're putting the priorities in the calendar and we're following through with it. These practices sound simple, but most people are not doing them. Right. And they're just coming and reacting. And I'm on a mission to change that, of help make leadership sustainable. I do believe that we can be highly effective and use our time much more intentionally and have the influence that we want and not have to be working a million hours. So that hustle culture, I think, is very much our culture right now. And the principles I'm talking about feel countercultural for a lot of people. And, but there's simple things we can do that set us up for being able to have a really productive day where we can leave at the end and not feel like, wow, I worked 10 hours today. What the heck did I even accomplish? Right.
SPEAKER_00:You teach competent coaching as a superpower for leaders. How can leaders coach their teams effectively through uncertainty, even if they're inside feeling unsure on their on their own?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think this comes to really being curious and asking more questions that you can go in, even if you're it's an uncertain time. I think we can acknowledge that. Wow, you know, we have a lot going on right now. And why don't we take a step back and look at what's on our plate? You know, what do you think is the most important priority we should focus on? Tell me what's on your plate. You know, what's your experience right now? What is your team struggling with? What's your biggest challenge? The more that we can create those environments for deeper conversation so that our meetings are not task focused on where are you on that project? I mean, I think there's value in that, but most people are using their meetings in a very task-oriented way and not a way that digs deeper to help support our employees. So if we can use that time and even set it up with our employees, that every time we meet every week, I would love for you to come with the biggest challenge you're experiencing so that we can talk through it and I can help support you. Um, I think that really helps to elevate the conversation and help people work through the challenges, not just try to be surface level in our interactions with our staff.
SPEAKER_00:What uh what is something that you have seen of the companies that you work with or the people that you coach that seems to be a pitfall that that either leaders or companies kind of continually fall into when it comes to trying to uh develop their leaders?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would say, so what's coming to mind for me right now is a a practice that we've had in our organizations for a long time and we've kind of touched on this a little bit, but it's promoting people for technical ability. And I think we still have this cycle that's happening and it's keeping us from continuing to elevate our cultures. And so I think I talk a lot about how the number one thing a CEO, an executive, or a manager can do is to stop that practice and start having better conversations with people who want to develop into leadership roles. I personally believe that not everyone is meant to be a leader of people. Now, you can be a leader in your life, you can be a leader at any level in an organization, even if you're not a people leader, but not everyone is meant to be a leader of people. Just like not everyone's meant to be an artist or a pilot or in customer service, we have to really raise the standards of this role and give people a peek behind the curtain of what being a supervisor, a manager, a leader looks like before they get there. And so in developing people, this could be if someone comes to you and says, you know, I want to move up to manager, I want to know how I can be promoted. Instead of just sending people to a class and checking it off or talking with them about what they can do, ask some curious questions around it. Well, tell me, what is it that entices you about that role? You know, what do you think it would take? What are the skills necessary do you think to be successful in a leadership role? And start to have a deeper conversation on the front end before they get into the position so that they can understand the different skills and competencies it takes. I find in those conversations that from my clients that most employees don't know what all those skills are. There's a gap between their awareness of what it takes. And so this is the opportunity as a manager to dig into that more and say something like, you know, having tough conversations is going to be necessary. And how do you feel like you would do that? I thought I can share a story about an employee I had on one of my teams that I think is really illustrates how helping people see what their talents are and aligning with that is very powerful. So I worked for a credit union in human resources. And one at one point, my CEO came to me and said, you should promote Eve, who was an HR generalist on our team. So Eve was a star performer, um, amazing HR generalist. And so I sat down one day to talk with her about, you know, what do you think about becoming a leader and moving into a manager role? And I'll never forget her response. She said, Lori, I never want your job. I don't want to be a leader. She said, I love what I do. I want to develop and I want to grow, but I don't want to give tough feedback. I don't want to have tough conversations. I don't want to be responsible for people and personalities. And talk about self-awareness. Here is someone who is so self-aware about her skills, her talents, her preferences, what she enjoyed, what filled her up. She didn't want to be stagnant and she continued to be a fantastic employee and develop in other ways. But she knew that she was not aligned with that role. And I think we need to do a much better job in our companies of helping people see what their talents and preferences are, making it okay to opt out of leadership, create different paths for people that aren't related to leadership so that they can develop and grow and they see a different way. And it doesn't have to be the avenue of now you just become a leader. I think this got us into a mess, you know, in many companies where we have mediocre leadership. And if we can get past that and start making that a focus, we can really start to make that a true profession and the impact that it's supposed to have.
SPEAKER_00:I that is so, so such a real feedback, right? And oftentimes there are people who won't say that and then they get promoted, or they're the kind of star employee that has never led people before. They don't have the 101 book. No one had the really intentional and thoughtful conversation like you did to say, hey, what do you think about this? These people get put in these roles, they don't want to decline, and and it ends up being a mess for everyone involved. When if we would just take the time to figure out what's fundamentally important to you as you grow, and maybe that is to be the best, whatever my role is today, in which case, great, how can we support that? If it's to grow, then let's put that, you know, the appropriate ladder and rung and and training to set you up for success. But I think start with that conversation to figure out what's truly important to people.
SPEAKER_01:You're right, because when we go ahead and we just start promoting and we don't have those deeper conversations, as you said, it becomes a mess. And it's really hard for someone who's now been promoted into a role to now come and say, you know what? I don't know if this is the right fit. I want to go back. You know, going back is not easy. People want to stay face, right? Or they don't feel like, gosh, I've put been put in this role. Now I have to try to succeed here, and I'm not set up the right way. So I absolutely agree. I think we we need to really have these conversations and make sure we're setting those people up for success in their roles and doing it in a way that, again, aligns with their values and help people see that. And that might even be in some cases where someone wants. To have your position one day and you're developing there and they leave the company for a better um opportunity. That's success in my eyes as a leader, is when we understand who our employees are, where they bring their talents, and how we can help them on their own path, not just this one path.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, love that. If every listener could walk away embodying one principle from the elevated leader, what would you want it to be and why?
SPEAKER_01:I think that would be moving from fixer to facilitator. If you can move out of fixing and telling and leading everything to being more curious and becoming more of a facilitator in your role by asking questions, helping to instill ownership, stepping back and giving people autonomy, it can really have a big impact on how you lead and how people step up into their roles.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it could it truly could change your life personally as well. Like there are uh there are ripples when we decide to lead differently that actually impact us professionally. And that's the beauty of growth, is it impacts all elements of our lives. That's right. That's right. Well, uh, I've got as we're wrapping up, I've got one more question. And it's a question I love to ask everyone. And that is of all the things that you have lived and learned and experienced thus far in life, if it were your last day on earth and you could only impart one piece of wisdom with the world, what would it be?
SPEAKER_01:That would be to define what success is to you holistically, and then to be intentional in living your life in that way. I think that um I know as I'm getting towards, I'd say middle age, I'm middle-aged now, I'm really reflecting on life a lot differently. I have three kids between the ages of 11 and 14. And I remember those days when people would say, Oh, you're gonna miss these days when the kids were really, really little. And I would get so frustrated by that because I would think, you don't remember what it's like in the trenches with small kids. And now I get it. I see how time is moving fast. And I see so many people who outwardly look successful, but inwardly they're miserable. And they have, you know, what you might think of as material success, but they don't have a peaceful life or great relationships or they don't enjoy life. A lot of leaders I know are working weekends and they're not enjoying life. And I'm a big proponent of enjoying life as it goes along. So my advice would be to make sure that your success, your definition is really holistic for your whole life and really take inventory of that. I ask myself a couple of times a year, what's working well, what's not working well, and what do I crave more of in my life? And just as an example, I was thinking about this earlier this week. And I've had, you know, with the book launch and with my clients, and I love what I do, but I've noticed that I've been packing my schedule pretty full. And going into 2026, I want to be intentional about creating more space, some more peace, and some more buffer so that I can be at my peak energy, but also enjoy my family and not feel like at night I'm trying to get my kids to bed so fast because I'm stressed out. And so I think we're always evolving as human beings. We're not perfect. Um, there's always room to grow. And if you're asking yourself these questions, so that you can live a really high quality, wonderful life and not just be a great leader, but have a great life.
SPEAKER_00:I resonate deeply with that where I am in life as well. So I feel like I can receive that very well. I'm sure many people can. Well, you have obviously been running with the release of your book and doing lots related to that. Most of what we talked about today go right to the book. So make sure to pick up a copy. Want to also talk about the course that you have coming in January.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, the course is the elevated leader. And this is a deep dive into the principles that I share in the book. And so it's seven sessions where leaders can really get that support, that community, and take action on those so that they can set themselves up to elevate their leadership and their life. Excellent.
SPEAKER_00:Well, uh, I will put everything in the show notes, but I would love for you to share where can people find out more about you, follow you, sign up for that course, get the book.
SPEAKER_01:So my website is laurymadalina.com. And then I would love for people to follow me and connect on LinkedIn and Instagram.
SPEAKER_00:Excellent. Well, I thank you so much for what you're doing to amplify voices, to elevate leaders with your continued work from your lived experiences. I think we are, I think it's Ed Milette who said we are uniquely qualified to coach those who are where we've been. And I think you're doing a beautiful job of that as you continue to spread that out in the world. So thank you so much for making time to be on. Thanks so much, Sunny.
SPEAKER_01:I've enjoyed our conversation.
SPEAKER_00:If today's episode challenged you, moved you, or lit a fire in your soul, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with somebody who's ready to rise. Can I ask you to take 30 seconds to leave a review? It's the best way to say thank you and help this show reach more bold leaders like you. Because this isn't just a podcast, it's a movement. We're not here to play small. We're here to lead loud, one bold and unapologetic step at a time. Until next time, stay bold, stay grounded, and make moves that make mediocre uncomfortable.
