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5 Secrets to Break into the C-Suite with Katy McFee (Fan Fave)

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🎧 Episode 190: 5 Secrets to Break into the C-Suite with Katy McFee 

In this inspiring episode of Evoke Greatness, I welcome Katy McFee, Founder of Insights to Action. Katy shares her journey from corporate frustration to executive success and how she's now dedicated to closing the gender gap in senior leadership. She offers insights on:

  • Navigating the corporate ladder from director to EVP
  • Overcoming challenges and misconceptions in leadership roles
  • The power of authenticity and kindness in executive positions
  • Creating supportive communities for women leaders
  • Strategies for career growth and overcoming plateaus

🔑 Key takeaways:

  1. Finding a supportive peer group is crucial for leadership growth
  2. Balancing ambition with authenticity in male-dominated environments
  3. The importance of self-reflection and awareness in career development
  4. How to create structured networking opportunities for meaningful connections
  5. Actionable steps for women feeling stuck in their careers

💡 Quotes to remember: "More women in leadership is the solution to so many of the challenges we face." - Katy McFee 
"You can do the hard thing... and still be kind." - Katy McFee

If you're a woman looking to advance in your career or seeking to make a bigger impact in leadership, this episode offers valuable insights and strategies for breaking through the glass ceiling.

Connect with Katie:

#WomenInLeadership #CareerGrowth #GenderEquality #ExecutiveCoaching #EvokenGreatness #GlassCeiling #WomenEmpowerment

A rising tide raises all ships, and I invite you along on this journey to Evoke Greatness!

Check out my website: www.evokegreatness.com

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SPEAKER_01:

Hey there, what's up everybody? Welcome to Evoke Greatness. This podcast was created for those of you who, like me, are driven by their curious nature and fascination with the champion mindset. If you have an insatiable hunger for growth and knowledge, or maybe you're just curious on how some of the most successful people have navigated their journey. We share the ups and the downs, the highs and the lows, and all the lessons learned along the way. It doesn't matter what chapter you are on in your story. Maybe you're just getting started, or heck, maybe you're halfway through. What I know is where intention goes, energy flows. It's my most sincere hope that you will hear something in one or maybe many of these episodes that resonates with you and reminds you that you are not in this alone. As we venture into year two, I hope that you find a sense of connection and community when you're here. Because we all deserve a place where we belong. My name is Sunny, and I am so glad you're here. If you're new, there's a few things you want to know about me. I am a huge book nerd and a wee bit of a control enthusiast with an obsession for motivational coffee cups. I believe that a rising tide raises all ships. And I invite you along in this journey to evoke greatness. After an 18-year corporate career that saw her rise from frustration to the heights of executive leadership, Katie now dedicates herself to a powerful mission, closing the gender gap in senior leadership. With firsthand experience as a director, VP, and EVP, Katie understands the unique challenges women face in climbing the corporate ladder. She's not just a success story, she's becoming the mentor and community builder she wished she had during her own struggles. Today, Katie helps aspiring executives break into senior roles and guides established women leaders to thrive without burning out. Her passion for creating supportive communities of like-minded women is changing the landscape of leadership. So get ready for an inspiring conversation that will challenge your perspectives on career growth, the power of community, and the impact of women in leadership. Katie, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much, Sunny. I'm so glad to be here. What a kind intro.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's all true, all true. I love just right off the bat to dive into a little bit about you, right? Your kind of 2.0, 3.0 version of yourself today. But what did that journey look like to getting you from 1.0 to where you are?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I never thought I would be doing what I'm doing today, truthfully. My path was corporate. I knew from my very first job I wanted to be a VP one day. So I was like, you know, dead set on making that happen and sort of laser focused on my career growth. And, you know, as things unfolded, I mean, I've spoken pretty openly about my struggles getting to senior leadership. I knew I wanted it, you know, from the very beginning of my career, but I hit some plateaus. So first as a manager, then as a director. And I really struggled to figure out what I needed to do to get to that next level in my career. And that ended up actually really shaping what I would later do. I didn't know it at the time. If you had asked me if I would like to just trade that struggle for a rocket ship to the top, I would have said yes. But it ended up really teaching me to dive deep and get curious about what makes a great leader, what holds us back as women and men, sometimes too, and how I can help more women to make that transition to senior leadership. So once I became a VP and an EVP, I saw a lot of the women around me struggling with the same things. And so I didn't want to give them the same answers I got, which was you're just not there yet. You know, you're not, you're just not that strategic. I wanted to do better as a leader. And so that's what sort of led me down this path of understanding how to make that transition to senior leadership. And, you know, then at the end of the day as an EVP, I eventually decided, hey, I think I want to work for myself, which again was never part of the plan, was very scary. But I realized that my journey was just all part of the, you know, sort of grander scheme of things, if you will.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love that. And and the parallels, I think just as you say them, I'm like resonating back. I can go back and see, I can see the challenges and struggles coming through. I can see the desire to want to rocket ship up. If someone would have said, bypass all these mistakes, bypass all the steps, just launch right up. I would have, I would have grabbed a hold of it. But it is the most, the most powerful growth and sense of evolvement and evolution comes in embracing those lessons that we learned along the way. So I'm curious for you, was there a light bulb moment somewhere along the way? Uh sometimes I think that is really hard lessons that feel in the moment like they are painstaking, but on the other side of them, growth up the mountain that you could have never even like specifically asked for.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean, there was a number of light bulb moments. I have to say that, you know, going from struggling as a director say, to thriving as a VP, there was not one lesson. There wasn't one thing that I, you know, I had a light bulb moment, I figured it out, and then suddenly I was a great leader. It was actually a number of incremental changes over time in terms of the way I was presenting myself, in terms of what I was prioritizing. But the light bulb moments, a lot of them came later when I looked back. And because when I became a VP, I was actually really successful in that role, which surprised me because I went to a bigger company that was growing quickly with, you know, big expectations in terms of what I was going to deliver. And I felt very intimidated. And so one of the big realizations moving into that position and in that role was that executives were actually just regular people. So for a long time, I think I just had I put executives on a pedestal. And what that did was it created some mindset block for me. I felt intimidated. I wasn't always showing up as my best self with senior executives because I felt a level of intimidation. And then when I finally moved into a VP role, I was like, oh, these are like I'm I'm meeting with C-level executives, I'm meeting with VPs, and they're just regular people like me. They're just trying to figure it out like I am. So that was an epiphany for me. But when I looked back honestly, with discernment over, you know, the way I was showing up as a director, I was able to see more clearly the things that I wasn't doing, the things that, you know, at the time I felt like I was ready and I wasn't sure. I was like, why is this guy not promoting me? Like, I'm doing all the things, I'm running the function. And part of my, you know, aha moment was that oftentimes we can be working super hard, doing everything we should we think we should be doing. And we can have blind spots in terms of how we're presenting ourselves and how we're showing up. So now that's what I try to do is help people to find those blind spots because it took me a long time to do that. And I think that we can do often do it faster with a little bit of help. But, you know, like I said, in that moment, I found it really hard to identify those. I didn't have a lot of people around me to help me identify them. And so I was kind of figuring it out on my own. And so, you know, when I looked back over time, you know, I was able to see. And so one of, again, and one of the lessons in that was just the power of reflection and the power of, you know, reflecting back on how did I show up in that meeting or how did I show up in that situation? And did I really show up as the leader I want to be? If I'm honest with myself, not judging, right? We don't have to beat ourselves up, but just honest discernment. We can learn a lot that way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You mentioned feeling like you were the only one struggling at times. How uh how can you guide aspiring leaders to kind of combat that sense of isolation, that sense of feeling like, you know, they don't want to be vulnerable. They don't want to be open about it. But how do you encourage those folks to actually share those vulnerabilities, be really open about it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, this was something that at the time I didn't realize I was looking for a peer group. I was looking for a group of people who I could share with in a vulnerable way. And I that didn't exist for me. Oftentimes that's not available to us until like we're a CEO, right? Like you see like CEO peer groups all the time. For entrepreneurs, there's a lot of options. But for mid-level managers in corporate and even like at the VP level, you don't see a lot of that. And so I would encourage people to seek out community, seek out people who are kind of in the same boat as them, where you can share things in a safe space. Because it's true, you don't want to, you don't necessarily want to tell like share these concerns with your boss because you're still trying to impress them. You don't want to share this with your reports because that's not really appropriate or fair. And oftentimes, just because of, I'm gonna say like proximity and the relationships we form, there aren't a lot of women leaders. And so oftentimes we are the only one in our friend group who's in this role, right? I talk to women about this all the time. And I'm like, you know, when I was going through this, I didn't have a lot of people in my life who understood because a lot of my friends were maybe they worked for the government or they were a teacher or a stay-at-home mom or whatever, and they loved me and supported me, but they couldn't relate. So I think being intentional about going out and finding your people and finding a community is so powerful because, you know, not only can you feel less alone, but you can also get their help, right? They can help you level up. You can share advice and best practices. And that was one of the things that I got the most benefit out of. And I didn't get an opportunity to join a group like that until I was an EVP. And I remember thinking, like, man, like this is so useful. I love it. It and I was, I wasn't, it wasn't even women, it was mostly men. But I thought, like, I really could have used this five, six, seven years ago in my career. And so part of my goal in life is to create those groups in the world and create those communities for people who may not have access to them because again, it can be tough to find those people. But if you don't want to like join a like a formal thing, oftentimes you can use LinkedIn. You can, you know, find events in your community, right? You can join associations depending on the function that you're involved in, whether that's HR or sales or marketing or whatever. So there are things you can do, either both organized and paid or just free groups that you can sort of create yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I know LinkedIn is a big one for so many. And it doesn't have to be necessarily anything formal, but really, again, you go back to that intentionality piece, but being intentional about seeking out those who, and maybe they're at the same level that you are, maybe they're a little bit ahead of you. And being able to share and garner the wisdom and the experience that they have had, you know, I think so often, I think back to my career on the fact that I had people see things in me that I didn't see in myself. And they laid pavers out in front of me, pavers, you know, again, that I wouldn't know would lead to this amazing career. Couldn't have told you in the moment. And so today, as I look back and today as I've shifted from that corporate space into the entrepreneurial world, I often say it's not just the right thing to do to make sure that we're mentoring others and sharing the wisdom and insights that we have garnered over our career. It's actually, I have a sense of responsibility around it. And so when we have that sense of responsibility to want to give back and to want to help people step over some of the potholes that we didn't even know were there and we stepped right in. But if we can share openly, authentically, other people can like vicariously step around some of those potholes that if they didn't know the information, if they didn't have access to that, they might step right in on their own. Totally.

SPEAKER_00:

I when I think back, what I would have done for a mentor, specifically a female mentor. Like I had mentors, I had male mentors in my life, and I still got great advice from them, right? I'm grateful for them. They helped shape my career. But one thing I realized was that sometimes the advice of, you know, six foot three alpha male was not applicable to me. Right. Right. And because I I would seek that advice out. And sometimes the advice I got, I was like, I don't think that's not gonna, I can't do that. Like, that's not gonna land coming for me. And it's not authentic. And at that time for me, LinkedIn was not what it is now. And so I was kind of looking like locally in the community, like, is there somebody I can find who's a mentor? And there wasn't really a good way for me to do that. And now there's just so much more available where you can reach out, you can meet people, you can reach out to them, you can ask them. And oftentimes women will give back and senior leaders will give back. You know, if they've had a great career, we do often feel that sense of, you know, responsibility to give back to the next generation, I guess. And especially if the person's still in corporate. Sometimes if the person has moved into entrepreneurship, it's a harder ask to be like, hey, can you give me free advice if that's their business? But certainly, like when I was a VP and an EVP, I mentored people for free all the time because I just thought like this is part of what I should be doing for the community. So yeah, I think it's I think there's a lot that you can find out there that maybe wasn't around when I was going through this, and people should take advantage of that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, you've said that more women in leadership is the solution to so many of the challenges that we face. Can you share a little bit more about what you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I would love to. Um, I feel so strongly about this because a lot of what holds women back today is around bias that exists that is often completely subconscious, right? And we know that the promotion gap, often referred to as the broken rung, happens the very first promotion to leadership, happens to the very first promotion to manager, where 87 women are promoted for every 100 men. This is from the McKinsey and Leanin Women in the Workplace report that they release every year. And if we believe that men and women are equally capable, as you move up in a company and this gap widens, you have to assume that there's something going on here. Like, right? Like probable lots of probability. It should not be that we cannot surpass 30% of senior leadership if we truly are like equal in terms of capability. And so something's going on here. And it does, I think it is largely rooted, and we've seen lots of data that supports this. Um, it's rooted in bias. It's rooted in the myth that meritocracy can exist in companies when we know it really can't. And so, and of course, it's it's very complex, right? There's subconscious bias. There's the fact that women have to go on mat leaves, and then we're often the primary caregiver, and we work the second ship. There's all of these things. But the thing that is consistent is that the more women we have in leadership, the less this has an impact on women coming up the ranks because there are more women in those senior leadership positions who are maybe mothers and who have been through the same thing or who can empathize with the additional challenges that we face. There's also data out there that shows that when you have women in senior leadership and on your board, there's less biased language used towards women in companies. So it trickles down. So there's there is a lot of evidence out there demonstrating that when we get more women into senior leadership, it creates a better environment for everyone, not just for women. Like, so, you know, the interesting thing is when we put women in senior leadership, that doesn't mean men lose, right? Like you don't see men getting axed and not getting promoted. It simply creates a more equal playing field for women who might be wanting to move into those more senior roles. So the tough thing is that it is both the solution and the problem, right? It's like, we need more women and senior leadership. And so the way to do that is to have more women and senior leadership. And so sometimes, you know, when I'm working with women and we're working through maybe perceptions and communication styles and dealing with bias. And people will ask me, like, but is that fair? Isn't this not our problem? Like, should we really have to think about how I am negotiating to combat the likability backlash or how I'm, you know, communicating in this instance? And I always say it shouldn't be our problem, right? Like, obviously, that the goal is to change the system. The goal is to create bigger change, but this is where we are today. And I want to help you make more money today. I don't want to wait a hundred years until systems have changed. I want to deal with where we are today and help more women get to that senior level so that change happens more quickly. So that's kind of my philosophy around it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, and you talk about women in senior leadership, maybe they're mothers, maybe they have for whatever experienced the dynamic that it is to be ambitious and yet still not feel like they've got that same path or trajectory as maybe some of their male counterparts. How do you advise women to balance that sense of ambition and yet being able to show up authentically in a male-dominated leadership environment?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's such a great question. I mean, I think that at the end of the day, and I always say this if I'm, whether it's like on LinkedIn or in a conversation or or whatever, when you're getting advice or when you're, you know, maybe learning more about leadership or whatever, that the filter you always have to put it through is is this authentic to me? Right. Because at the end of the day, if you're showing up as a different person, you're not going to be happy in your life. And so I believe all of us, men, women, doesn't matter because I think men have their own struggles in terms of bringing their authentic selves to work and to the world. And it's just a different struggle, but equally important. We need to ask ourselves like, am I, am I being authentic and is this me? And I think as women, we need to recognize that like we have a lot of superpowers and they're not always the same as our male counterparts. Like, there's some things that we're better at. I'll give you a great example. I was having a conversation on a coaching call yesterday, where we were talking about, you know, when you come into a new company, maybe you inherit a big team and changes have to be made and how to navigate that. We were talking about the idea of starting with why and sharing with your team like the why behind these big changes or these process changes or whatever the thing is. And through the conversation, we kind of discovered that a lot of the men we know, a lot of the men I know who do this are very intentional about doing it. Meaning they say to themselves, I am going to provide the why so that people will buy in. The women I know just naturally do it. They just always provide the why. And we were thinking about why that was. And I thought, I my belief, my hypothesis is that part of it is when we are growing up, we are conditioned to feel as though we can't just order people around. We can't just say, hey, do this. We always need a reason. Hey, could you do this because it's going to help with this? Right. So, so part of it, in a way, is our maybe negative conditioning, but working towards us. Because then when we become leaders, that's actually a great leadership trait and skill to start with why and to get buy-in from your team. And so I'm going to bring it back to the question because I think that we have so much to offer and we can get lost in trying to show up as someone else, trying to show up as the leaders we see represented. And so I'm a believer in just, you know, unapologetically owning our ambition and doing it authentically and being aware of the environment that we're in and sometimes acknowledging that even by saying, Hey, I know the way you guys, we typically do this around here is this. This is why I'm going to do it this way. Right. And and and really leaning into that because your results are going to speak for themselves.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But I'm curious when you think about what it takes for a woman to be to be able to succeed in an executive role, I think there's a lot of misconceptions. What is something that you think is an unpopular opinion around this? Like what are some of those misconceptions like, you know, that get thrown around that that we can kind of pop the bubble on?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I think one thing that that comes through a lot in terms of what's required to be an executive is like you need to be a hard ass. And and that often goes against many women's nature. I know for me, I got this advice all the time. You need to be harder on your team. You're too nice to your team. And that didn't feel authentic to me, right? Like I was like, well, yeah, I'm nice to my team, I love my team, right? Like I've hired them. I want to support them. And I think one thing we have to recognize is you can do the hard thing. You can, you can share a hard truth with someone or say the hard thing or make the hard decision and still be kind. And that's something that I see the men that I know struggle with more than women. With women, we tend to sometimes err on too nice. Men tend to err maybe on too direct. And that the perfect balance is right in the middle. And so I think that, you know, you talk about the common misperceptions. I think we've sometimes created our perceptions around what leadership should look like based on who has traditionally sat in those seats. So who has traditionally been the leaders that we've looked at? White men, older white men, right? That's generally what we've seen. And and men with personalities that are maybe very confident, maybe kind of aggressive, maybe, you know, split second decision making and less thoughtful or whatever, right? And so we look at that and say, okay, that's what leadership looks like. And that's one thing I want to challenge because that's not always what the best leaders look like. You know, I think we need to be able to make hard decisions. We need to be able to do the right thing. We need to be able to sometimes share a hard truth, but we can do it in a way that's still authentic and doesn't look like maybe what we've seen as traditional, you know, leadership. We can do it in a way that actually is a bit more authentic to us.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that you go that you keep going back to what feels authentic. Because to your point earlier, if we are acting in a way, we have a way of being that isn't our own, that truly isn't authentic to us. We're like trying to function in someone else's persona or body or, you know, and that's not gonna, that's gonna feel clunky and it's gonna feel uh incongruent with what we're really feeling like we are or what we believe in. And it's also about the and relationship. And I love that you said that. We can complete the objective, right? I can address these things with my team, check, and do it in a way that's compassionate. I don't have to go in guns ablazing. And so so often we forget that it doesn't have to be a uh this or that. It can be an and relationship. Like we can go in and complete the objective and do it in a way that is compassionate or kind, or we can be vulnerable in those moments. We can truly show up authentically. And so I love that you keep tying those things back together there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I mean, this comes up a lot, I find, when when women are maybe sharing challenges with me that, you know, having this conversation, or maybe, maybe they want to leave a job and they're they're feeling a lot of guilt or whatever the thing is. And I'm I always ask them, okay, you know what you want to do, right? You know, or what you what the right thing to do is. How can you do this in a way that feels good to you? And there's almost always a way when we think about it. I think when I when I left my EVP job, I felt terrible leaving that job. I had been there for only a year. I felt so valued on that leadership team. I have to say, like, not, you know, I tell stories about my career and and sometimes I talk about maybe not feeling super valued here or there. But I have to say, as an EVP on this team, our CEO was a great human. The senior leadership team was smart and and effective. And I really felt valued as a member on that team. I really felt heard. And so when I decided to leave, it had nothing to do with the team, right? I had oftentimes they were like, you leave, you only leave bad managers. Not that this was not the case for me. This was me deciding, you know, feeling burnt out and deciding to move in another direction. So I felt horrible because I'm like, they could not have treated me better. And and I'm gonna leave. And I know it's not the best thing for them. But I had to ask myself, okay, but I know in my soul that this is what I am meant to do. I know that I that I want to leave and do something else. How can I do it in a way that feels good to me? That I where I still feel like I'm leaving with integrity, that I'm not leaving them in a bad position, that I'm just doing it the best way possible, knowing it's not an ideal situation. And I think we can ask ourselves that in all kinds of scenarios, right? How can I do this thing in a way that feels good to me? And often we can get creative and come up with a solution.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and you're passionate about creating those supportive communities for women leaders. How do you how do those, how do you feel like those differ from kind of your traditional networking, which sometimes feels like cringy? You know, that that that typical viewpoint on networking. And but why are the why is that community support and that type of networking? Why is it so crucial for women?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, I believe the community part is is so important, as I mentioned, because like I felt so alone in that stage of my life. And I, and it's really hard to find people that you can talk to that really understand where you're at. Um, and I totally feel you. I've gone to lots of networking events, even to this day, I have to admit, I hate networking. I do it because I love the relationships I make. I was recently at an in-person uh networking, I mean, it was a conference, but we came to the networking sort of cocktail hour or whatever on the first night. And I'm like, okay, deep breath. If you meet five people, you can leave. And I ended up meeting great people. I ended up going for dinner with a group of amazing women. Like, you know, and and I, in the end, it was such a great experience. But all of us, like, if you think if you're out there being like, I'm the only one that hates networking, you are not. Okay. Almost everyone hates it. And it can just feel artificial, right? It can feel artificial, it's often small talk. So what do you do? What do you do? The difference in the communities that I create is we kind of cut the small talk. I mean, at the beginning, everyone introduces themselves, but we get right into the stuff, right? And I used to be the chair of a nonprofit uh called Women Powering Technology. And one of the big things I did there, because there was a lot of women coming to these events, but they would stick with their friend and they wouldn't actually interact with the other women. And so we created more structured networking where we would provide a topic and say, I want you guys to talk about this for 10 minutes. You know, like sit down at a group, six people per table, and talk about this for 10 minutes, and then we're gonna switch. And what I noticed was that was the change that needed to happen in order for people to have real conversation. Then they didn't want to switch tables, they wanted to keep talking to these people and you see them exchanging numbers or LinkedIn or whatever. And so I took that with me when I was creating my community, where, you know, it's a it's really a combination. There is some structured curriculum because, as I mentioned, I really want to help people find their blind spots. And so that's a big part of it. But with respect to the networking piece of the group discussion, it is structured. It's like, okay, here's the topic. We're gonna break you into groups of three or four. And I want you to go around and talk about this. How has this impacted you, right? How, what happened in this kind of situation for you? And so very quickly, they get into real stuff. And I think that is one of the key components to creating better relationships and getting more out of the networking conversations.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. And there's so much value there. And it is, the difference is actually, I think so often the networking piece is the fear. There's a fear around it, right? Am I going to be rejected? Am I like it's just again like cringe comes to mind? And but that is about like how we're going to be perceived, right? When we go at it with an attitude or intention around like being in service of others, right? And how can I lift others up because a rising, you know, tide lifts all boats up? That's where it changes. And you're actually more invested in how can I develop relationships and that aren't just going to be here for this five minutes, but like, how can we support each other? I think that really changes the perspective on it altogether.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. And that goes for so many things. Like whether it's public speaking or posting online or anything, like once we shit change that frame from, oh my gosh, what's everyone going to think of me? to how can I help someone else? Becomes a lot easier. Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Absolutely. Well, for women who feel like they are stuck in their careers right now, maybe they're at a level and it's like, I want, I seek that next level, but I feel stuck. I don't know how to get there. What are some actionable steps that they can take towards moving in the direction of those leadership goals?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I mean, there's a few things they can do. One thing I always recommend if you're feeling stuck in your career is to create some kind of reflection practice. So really start reflecting, either if there's a meeting that goes really well or does not go well, sit down afterwards and reflect back, or maybe at the end of the week, every week, reflect back on what went well for me, what didn't go the way I wanted it to, why. Right. So if you pitch an idea at a meeting and everyone's like, oh yeah, that's amazing. Okay, well, what language did you use? Like, how did you do it? Like, what was different this time around? And so start to gain some of that self-awareness. The second thing is to find people who can help you. I'm always like, we always think we have to do this alone. And again, like in my case, I was looking for the people. I actually worked with an executive coach around that time in my career as well, but to find people who are maybe a few steps ahead of you. So you want, when you think about it with your network of people, I always say you want people like a couple years ahead at your level and a couple years behind. And they're all three of those are important. So you want the people ahead because they're your mentors. They can teach you. Like in my experience, this worked. Or have you tried this? The people at your level are your peers. So maybe they're going through stuff right now. Maybe they're gonna like, oh, I tried the strategy last week, it really worked, or this is changing in our industry, or whatever, right? Or hey, that sucks. Let's just commiserate. And then the people behind you, you can teach. And there is so much knowledge to be gained by teaching others, right? You really start to understand how good you are at something when you try to teach it to somebody else. So all of those are going to help you level up. And so I would say, you know, look, look to your network. Do I have those people? Sometimes, if you don't have the people ahead of you, you can solve that through like a program or something like that. And sometimes it's good to actually have all of the options, right? Like I think about myself, right? I have people that I talk to all of the time that we help each other out. I'm also, I also have like a mastermind that I'm part of where I have a coach. Like I really kind of stack the odds in my favor. And I tried to do this, you know, when I was a leader as well. Like I would, when I came into my VP position, when I came into my EV pos EVP position, one of the first things I did was like make a list. Who are all the people I could reach out to that could help me in a given situation? Or who I can bounce things off. And sometimes it wasn't that they were telling me what to do. It was more me saying, hey, this is our scenario. This is what I'm planning to do. Like, am I missing something? And oftentimes it was them saying, Nope, that's exactly what I would do. You're on the right track. And then me just feeling more confident about that decision, right? Before I presented it to my CEO or whatever the thing was. So, you know, one of the biggest things, one, obviously self-awareness, self-reflection, but finding people around you who can help you, that is just always a good idea. Don't feel like you have to do it on your own.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And having that sounding board. Again, not to say, here's exactly the playbook in which you need to follow step by step. Rather, they can bounce it, you can bounce it off of someone who had maybe has been there and done that and could just help you solidify that decision forward. And you have a you have a program around this where you deal directly with this and talk through it. And you actually have an upcoming call. You want to share a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So this program is like so near and dear to my heart. It is, it is the sort of the signature offer that I that I offer through my company. And it is specifically for women, manager, senior manager, director, senior director, who are maybe feeling stuck in their career or who want to fast track their way to that next level. And it's largely based on my own experience and all of the women I saw around me, and all of the women that I coached when I started my business, right? So what I do through that program is I really help you get what I call VP ready. Right. So I say I help you gain the confidence, composure, credibility you need to get to that next level. So we deal with all kinds of things, you know, to do with mindset. We talk about exec skills and what's expected. We talk about habits and boundaries. We talk about all of these important things that I'm like, once you master all of this stuff, you can go own your seat at any table. Right. So that's the goal of the program. The goal as well is to create that community. So that's why it's in very intentionally a group that has breakouts and, you know, where you gain this larger community. So I do it live and I launch it a couple of times a year. So the next one's coming up in September. And I'm doing an info call on Wednesday, July, I believe it's a 24th, Wednesday, July 24th at noon Eastern, where anyone can come and they can just learn a little bit about it and be like, is this, does this feel like the right fit for me? And the great thing about it. So I created this and I've iterated it. You know, I created it and I've made it better and better every time. And I feel so good about, you know, what I offer now to women. A lot of the women I've worked with have been able to progress to those next levels in their career. And I was thinking this yesterday. I was messaging a woman who works with me. And I said, like, have you noticed in the last like two weeks, three women in the community have announced that they've either stepped into new VP or C roles. And then two more are interviewing for C level roles. I'm like, this is amazing. So that's the goal with the program. Like I said, it's for women anywhere from manager all the way up to senior director. And uh I'll share the Zoom link with you. And if people want to attend, you know, I definitely recommend just come check it out and learn a little bit more and see is this for me, is it not? If you want more information, you can always reach out to me directly too. I'm always happy to share.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I love that. We'll we'll put the link directly in the show notes. That way, as you listen to this, which will be a Tuesday, that call will be Wednesday. So make sure you take advantage of clicking on that link and being able to go. I mean, those are those are like foundational principles of making it from one level to the next. And I love that you're sharing so much about your own experience, but also the experience of those you coach, because that gives us a really vast amount of experiences, information, wisdom, and insights to be able to share, to help people navigate that next rung on the ladder, if you will.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally. And I want to say like the reason that I focus on it's either manager, director, or director to VP, where I find people get stuck, sometimes both like me. But depending on the level of company you're in, that's often where you see like a shift in the expectations. Where maybe, you know, getting promoted to the first level of leadership or to your first manager level, you were able to achieve that by being a really strong executor, getting stuff done, working really hard. And as you continue to execute the same playbook, suddenly it's like not working anymore. So, so the goal of the program is, you know, to help you figure out, okay, what do I need to start doing differently in order to really transition to that next level and thrive there? Right. We don't want to just get you there. We want to help you really thrive in that role. So I think that that's, you know, why to me that that specific transition is so important.

SPEAKER_01:

And speaking of hindsight and and really taking time to reflect, if you could look forward and if your future self could whisper one piece of advice into your ear right now, knowing everything you know about your journey thus far, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00:

Ooh. So not me to my past self, my future self to me now. Right, right. Oh, goodness, goodness. You know what? I think it's, I think it's follow your intuition. Right? Like it's so interesting because again, a lot of my career I had this idea of an external goal that I felt I had to pursue and achieve. And then once I hit it, once I became a VP, I was like, well, now what? Well, so maybe I'll just do the next thing, right? And I was I was recruited by like a recruiter contacting me about my EVP role. And I was like, okay, well, like this is higher and I get more money. So like that's what I should do next. And I wasn't really tapping into my intuition of like, what do I think I'm meant to do in this world? So that has been a journey for me to really start to just trust my gut and you know, not be so concerned with what external perceptions might be of my career choices. I gotta tell you, when you say you want to leave an EVP role to go be a coach, not everyone understands. You know, like I had a few friends who are like, you're gonna what? Like, have you lost your mind? And so I didn't really get a lot of support from certain people, which can really kind of mirror your your own self-doubts, right? So yeah, so that's something that I've been on, I've been on a journey to to really embrace. And I think my future self would be like, you're on, you're on the path, girl. Just keep doing it.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I love that. Well, last question before we wrap up. This is always a fun one. Uh, so imagine a giant billboard is displaying a single message, and that message resonates with your life's work.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01:

What powerful statement would you choose to display on that billboard for all to see? And why?

SPEAKER_00:

This is one you could have sent me in advance. A powerful statement that that exemplifies my life's work. I would say, I gotta think for just a moment here. I would just really say, and it and it would a statement like Katie did this, or is it just like a general statement? Whatever you want it to be. Because what it's around is the statement is definitely around more women in leadership is better for everyone. Right. And and so I'm trying to think of like my life's work. So maybe it's like, you know, closing the gender gap in senior leadership. That's what I would love my life's work to be. Yeah. I could even, and and closing it might be ambitious, but if I could narrow, if I could have any impact on narrowing the gap we see in senior leadership, I will feel very good about what I've done.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love that. And I think you're you're clearly already contributing to that, which is a gift for women within this space of those who are at a certain level and have a desire, but maybe not the confidence, not the courage, not those things that you build up over time. They're the the things that come with the sometimes hard knocks and the lessons. But I think strong, powerful women such as yourself who are sharing and who are coaching and who are guiding people, uh, you are contributing to it. So I think that that message on that billboard would resonate wonderfully. Thank you so much. That means a ton. Uh, want to make sure everyone knows where to find you, where can they connect with you? You're on LinkedIn. Where else should they follow you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn. I post every day there. I also post on Instagram and that content's just a little bit different, like more videos and that kind of thing. I have a free newsletter as well that I send out every single week where I deep dive on a topic. So if you want a little more of my content, that's a great resource that I would highly recommend. Yeah, so those would be the main ways. And like I said, if you're thinking if the program I mentioned sounds interesting to you, I would say either reach out to me directly. I'm always A-O-K with that, or come to that call and see what you think. And uh we can kind of go from there and see if I can help you get to that next step.

SPEAKER_01:

Excellent. Well, Katie, I just want to acknowledge you for just the work you've done in your career personally, right? As you have climbed ambitiously the ladder over the years. But then I think also courageously to step into a space that, as you said, not everybody understood or maybe supported. Like sometimes it can be a head scratcher, but it was because you followed your intuition and you were courageous enough to do so in service of others. And so I definitely want to acknowledge that and thank you for all you continue to do and for making the time to be able to come on.

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you so much. And thank you again for inviting me. This has been so fun.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much for listening and for being here on this journey with me. I hope you'll stick around. If you liked this episode, it would mean the world for me if you would rate and review the podcast or share it with someone you know may need to hear this message. I love to hear from you all and want you to know that you can leave me a voicemail directly. If you go to my website, evokegreatness.com, and go to the contact me tab, you'll just hit the big old orange button and record your message. I love the feedback and comments that I've been getting, so please keep them coming. I'll leave you with the wise words of author Robin Sharma. Greatness comes by doing a few small and smart things each and every day. It comes from taking little steps consistently. It comes from making a few small chips against everything in your professional and personal life that is ordinary, so that a day eventually arrives when all that's left is the extraordinary.

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Sonnie Linebarger

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